LS430 to GS450h/GS430 a downgrade?
LS430 to GS450h/GS430 a downgrade?
26-09-2018, 06:18 AM
jimxms Then I came across the Chrysler 300C with the 5.7L Hemi engine. Yes it's a poorly put together American Bentley rip-off, but all of the important stuff (drivetrain etc) is made by Mercedes from what I understand, the engine is bullet proof, so most of the things that are likely to go wrong won't be show stoppers or overly expensive to fix?
This is just me thinking out loud though, so I've by no means come to any conclusion. Be interested to hear what you guys think?
Poorly put together? certainly not as good as many high end European cars, but not as poorly put together as the likes of Top gear would tell you. FANTASTIC variable displacement Hemi engine means great fuel economy - for a V8, corners well enough for a barge and comes will all the toys.
Thing is yank cars just don't make sense in Europe, but in their home environment they really work well and are the natural choice for the vast majority. Our roads are narrow and filled with other cars lol.
The one I test drove had 150K on it and still felt tight and the acceleration was hard and fast, with a smooth as silk gearbox, no rattles, nothing wrong with it at all. The only reason we didn't buy was the Trans Am was parked round the corner and well look at it she's beautiful.
Edited 07-11-2011, 03:54 PM by FirebirdPhil.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
26-09-2018, 06:18 AM #22jimxms Then I came across the Chrysler 300C with the 5.7L Hemi engine. Yes it's a poorly put together American Bentley rip-off, but all of the important stuff (drivetrain etc) is made by Mercedes from what I understand, the engine is bullet proof, so most of the things that are likely to go wrong won't be show stoppers or overly expensive to fix?
This is just me thinking out loud though, so I've by no means come to any conclusion. Be interested to hear what you guys think?
Poorly put together? certainly not as good as many high end European cars, but not as poorly put together as the likes of Top gear would tell you. FANTASTIC variable displacement Hemi engine means great fuel economy - for a V8, corners well enough for a barge and comes will all the toys.
Thing is yank cars just don't make sense in Europe, but in their home environment they really work well and are the natural choice for the vast majority. Our roads are narrow and filled with other cars lol.
The one I test drove had 150K on it and still felt tight and the acceleration was hard and fast, with a smooth as silk gearbox, no rattles, nothing wrong with it at all. The only reason we didn't buy was the Trans Am was parked round the corner and well look at it she's beautiful.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
26-09-2018, 06:28 AM
2tongues Poorly put together? certainly not as good as many high end European cars, but not as poorly put together as the likes of Top gear would tell you. FANTASTIC variable displacement Hemi engine means great fuel economy - for a V8, corners well enough for a barge and comes will all the toys.
I've been reading around the 300C forums and it seems like all of the problems are mostly silly things like rattles, squeaks, pops. Electric windows not working, sensors dying far too early (like 20k miles). Nothing that bothers me massively, and I imagine that the engine is reasonably easy to work on anyway?
Am I right in understanding that its got 16 spark plugs tho?
Its still on my 'possible' list, as is the Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 with the same engine (always wanted a 4x4).
2tongues Poorly put together? certainly not as good as many high end European cars, but not as poorly put together as the likes of Top gear would tell you. FANTASTIC variable displacement Hemi engine means great fuel economy - for a V8, corners well enough for a barge and comes will all the toys.
I've been reading around the 300C forums and it seems like all of the problems are mostly silly things like rattles, squeaks, pops. Electric windows not working, sensors dying far too early (like 20k miles). Nothing that bothers me massively, and I imagine that the engine is reasonably easy to work on anyway?
Am I right in understanding that its got 16 spark plugs tho?
Its still on my 'possible' list, as is the Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 with the same engine (always wanted a 4x4).
26-09-2018, 06:34 AM
As for dual spark plugs - yes it does the 2nd one fires on the down stroke, to reduce emissions.
"“Each cylinder has an ignition coil pack over one spark plug, and a regular plug wire connected to the other spark plug. Further, the coil pack also has a plug wire attached to it that extends to the opposite cylinder bank. Each cylinder shares a coil pack with another cylinder. Each of the two plugs on a given cylinder is fired by a separate coil. One plug has a coil directly attached, and the other is fired via an ignition wire connected to a coil located on another cylinder on the opposite bank. The benefits would be one-half the number of coils (8 vs. 16) compared to each plug having its own coil, and of course less weight.”
“Cryptojoe” wrote: “The extra plug fires during the power stroke to more fully burn the hydrocarbons. ... the second ignition allows additional power in the down stroke while lowering the need for restrictive catalyst plates in the converter.
“In the 1980s Japanese manufacturers reduced unburned hydrocarbons by placing spark plugs either in the exhaust pipe (which fired with every piston ignition) or in the exhaust manifold (which fired each time their corresponding cylinder fired). Chrysler morphed this idea to include dual fired plugs on each cylinder, which allows the firing to take place closer to top dead center, and then again when the piston is on the back side of the power stroke.”
Patrick added: “This [also reduces] NOx and ozone. Full combustion results in heat, water, and carbon dioxide. NOx emissions are only significant during incomplete or partial combustion, due to the lack of available oxygen, high temperatures, and various chemical reactions. That's why catalytic converters have been standard on cars for the past 3 decades. The extra set of spark plugs on the HEMI and on previous engines are designed to reduce emissions before a catalyst is needed. They add some horsepower, but not very much.”"
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
26-09-2018, 06:34 AM #24that engine is in 100's of cars and pickups. WIM's pick up will have the 5.7 V8 in it.
As for dual spark plugs - yes it does the 2nd one fires on the down stroke, to reduce emissions.
"“Each cylinder has an ignition coil pack over one spark plug, and a regular plug wire connected to the other spark plug. Further, the coil pack also has a plug wire attached to it that extends to the opposite cylinder bank. Each cylinder shares a coil pack with another cylinder. Each of the two plugs on a given cylinder is fired by a separate coil. One plug has a coil directly attached, and the other is fired via an ignition wire connected to a coil located on another cylinder on the opposite bank. The benefits would be one-half the number of coils (8 vs. 16) compared to each plug having its own coil, and of course less weight.”
“Cryptojoe” wrote: “The extra plug fires during the power stroke to more fully burn the hydrocarbons. ... the second ignition allows additional power in the down stroke while lowering the need for restrictive catalyst plates in the converter.
“In the 1980s Japanese manufacturers reduced unburned hydrocarbons by placing spark plugs either in the exhaust pipe (which fired with every piston ignition) or in the exhaust manifold (which fired each time their corresponding cylinder fired). Chrysler morphed this idea to include dual fired plugs on each cylinder, which allows the firing to take place closer to top dead center, and then again when the piston is on the back side of the power stroke.”
Patrick added: “This [also reduces] NOx and ozone. Full combustion results in heat, water, and carbon dioxide. NOx emissions are only significant during incomplete or partial combustion, due to the lack of available oxygen, high temperatures, and various chemical reactions. That's why catalytic converters have been standard on cars for the past 3 decades. The extra set of spark plugs on the HEMI and on previous engines are designed to reduce emissions before a catalyst is needed. They add some horsepower, but not very much.”"
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
26-09-2018, 06:49 AM
2tongues that engine is in 100's of cars and pickups. WIM's pick up will have the 5.7 V8 in it.
That's what draws me to it the most. The fact that it's got sooo much aftermarket support and a lot of the performance upgrades are relatively well priced.
I think I'm going to have to go and take a look at one of the 300C's. I like the outside, but I'm not sold on the interior yet.
Also the Jag is on the list
2tongues that engine is in 100's of cars and pickups. WIM's pick up will have the 5.7 V8 in it.
That's what draws me to it the most. The fact that it's got sooo much aftermarket support and a lot of the performance upgrades are relatively well priced.
I think I'm going to have to go and take a look at one of the 300C's. I like the outside, but I'm not sold on the interior yet.
Also the Jag is on the list
26-09-2018, 06:52 AM
500 BHP is easy, either NA or Supercharged. If power is high on the list look for a 6.1L they are insane.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
26-09-2018, 06:52 AM #26The only thing I disliked was the placement of the arm rest, in manual mode it made changing gear a little annoying, but mostly it would be in auto so not really an issue.
500 BHP is easy, either NA or Supercharged. If power is high on the list look for a 6.1L they are insane.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
26-09-2018, 06:55 AM
2tongues The only thing I disliked was the placement of the arm rest, in manual mode it made changing gear a little annoying, but mostly it would be in auto so not really an issue.
500 BHP is easy, either NA or Supercharged. If power is high on the list look for a 6.1L they are insane.
Yeah I did eye up a 6.1, but they are double the price of a 5.7, so out of my price range and probably insurance would laugh at me too.
When you're inside them, how plasticy do they feel? The dash looked a bit naff if I'm honest?
2tongues The only thing I disliked was the placement of the arm rest, in manual mode it made changing gear a little annoying, but mostly it would be in auto so not really an issue.
500 BHP is easy, either NA or Supercharged. If power is high on the list look for a 6.1L they are insane.
Yeah I did eye up a 6.1, but they are double the price of a 5.7, so out of my price range and probably insurance would laugh at me too.
When you're inside them, how plasticy do they feel? The dash looked a bit naff if I'm honest?
26-09-2018, 10:19 AM
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
26-09-2018, 10:19 AM #28this is where they are let down most I think - you can't have everything unless you spend substantial £'s........ The dodge Charger RT is a better car inside even-though its technically a downgrade?
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
26-09-2018, 11:41 AM
There's so much room inside, and it's incredibly comfortable. Drawbacks - the interior materials are quite poor. It's solidly put together, but the materials aren't great. Also couldn't stand the tortoise shell bits on the steering wheel and doors (who on earth thought that was a good idea?) and the steering wheel is so big it feels like you're steering a ship.
Obviously on big straight american roads it works perfectly, not sure how well it would work over here but compared to an LS it'll be fine! Again go have a drive in one, if you're anything like me you'll be hooked :biggrin:
2002 '02' IS200 SE Auto - DVD Satnav with Voice Activation - [COLOR="Blue"]Strathcaron Blue - Parking Sensors - 5000K HIDs with Anti-Glare Bulbs - PIAA 6500K Main Beams - LED Sidelights - Mirror/Sunroof Closure - TTE Styling Kit - 18" Styling Kit Alloys with nitrogen filled Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric Tyres - Bluetouch Multimedia Kit - Gromaudio AUX in - Black painted calipers with silver Lexus decals - 12 LED Dome Light - 96 LED Boot Light - Stainless Steel Sport Sill Plates - PIAA Silicone Wipers[/COLOR]
I am a big fan of the 300C - drove a hemi for almost 2 weeks as a rental a few years ago in the states and had so much fun in it.
There's so much room inside, and it's incredibly comfortable. Drawbacks - the interior materials are quite poor. It's solidly put together, but the materials aren't great. Also couldn't stand the tortoise shell bits on the steering wheel and doors (who on earth thought that was a good idea?) and the steering wheel is so big it feels like you're steering a ship.
Obviously on big straight american roads it works perfectly, not sure how well it would work over here but compared to an LS it'll be fine! Again go have a drive in one, if you're anything like me you'll be hooked :biggrin:
2002 '02' IS200 SE Auto - DVD Satnav with Voice Activation - [COLOR="Blue"]Strathcaron Blue - Parking Sensors - 5000K HIDs with Anti-Glare Bulbs - PIAA 6500K Main Beams - LED Sidelights - Mirror/Sunroof Closure - TTE Styling Kit - 18" Styling Kit Alloys with nitrogen filled Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric Tyres - Bluetouch Multimedia Kit - Gromaudio AUX in - Black painted calipers with silver Lexus decals - 12 LED Dome Light - 96 LED Boot Light - Stainless Steel Sport Sill Plates - PIAA Silicone Wipers[/COLOR]
26-09-2018, 11:51 AM
parthiban Obviously on big straight american roads it works perfectly, not sure how well it would work over here but compared to an LS it'll be fine! Again go have a drive in one, if you're anything like me you'll be hooked :biggrin:
Thx for the info mate. You seem quite critical when it comes to cars so to hear that you liked the 300C is a good sign :p
One thing I really want from whichever car I end up with is something with a bit of character that acts/sounds like what its got under the hood. Don't get me wrong, when you WOT the LS430 it does sound nice, but its too quietened down and it doesn't feel like a 6.2sec car.
On my test drive list so far I have:
Chrysler 300C 5.7l
Jaguar XJR 4.2 Supercharged
Toyota Aristo 3L TT (if i can find a minter)
I wonder what would be less trouble out of the Chrysler (30k) or the Jag (90k).
parthiban Obviously on big straight american roads it works perfectly, not sure how well it would work over here but compared to an LS it'll be fine! Again go have a drive in one, if you're anything like me you'll be hooked :biggrin:
Thx for the info mate. You seem quite critical when it comes to cars so to hear that you liked the 300C is a good sign :p
One thing I really want from whichever car I end up with is something with a bit of character that acts/sounds like what its got under the hood. Don't get me wrong, when you WOT the LS430 it does sound nice, but its too quietened down and it doesn't feel like a 6.2sec car.
On my test drive list so far I have:
Chrysler 300C 5.7l
Jaguar XJR 4.2 Supercharged
Toyota Aristo 3L TT (if i can find a minter)
I wonder what would be less trouble out of the Chrysler (30k) or the Jag (90k).
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