A Few questions for all you turbo guys out there...
A Few questions for all you turbo guys out there...
But the other option is to go down the small turbo route and just use a boost controller to cap the boost at 0.3 bar just like the TTE supercharger.
Now with regards to physically doing it, all the parts are easy to get hold of (manifold from IKE, blackbox from Patrik etc.) But I have some slightly more technical questions about the turbo'ing stuff.
1. TTE Supercharger generates 0.3 bar boost, which translates to about 75hp extra, but 25hp is used to drive the supercharger so you end up with about 200hp in total. So if I get a turbo which runs off exhaust gases, and doesn't add resistance to the engine, if I still set the boost controller to the same 0.3 bar aswell, am I going to end up with 225hp? And if so, will I need to limit the boost even more to stop it exceeding the thresholds set by the TTE Blackbox?
2. How does turbo sizing work? Are the numbers you see on turbos (T30/T35 etc.) a standardised size or are they a particular manufacturers sizing?
3. Realistically, I'm not at any point planning to go beyond a HP rating that will exceed the stock engine, I'm initally aiming for the same 200hp you get with a supercharger, and maybe increase to 250hp in the future, but that's it. So with that in mind, I want the smallest turbo I can get away with that can make those sort of figures, I don't care about the whole 'my turbo's bigger that yours thing' I just want one that can make about 200-250hp and will spool super fast.
Any advice appreciated :thumbup1:
sprinter2012
15-02-2019, 08:28 AM #1Just weighing up options for making the Lex a bit faster, I've recently been looking at doing a custom Eaton M62 supercharger setup.
But the other option is to go down the small turbo route and just use a boost controller to cap the boost at 0.3 bar just like the TTE supercharger.
Now with regards to physically doing it, all the parts are easy to get hold of (manifold from IKE, blackbox from Patrik etc.) But I have some slightly more technical questions about the turbo'ing stuff.
1. TTE Supercharger generates 0.3 bar boost, which translates to about 75hp extra, but 25hp is used to drive the supercharger so you end up with about 200hp in total. So if I get a turbo which runs off exhaust gases, and doesn't add resistance to the engine, if I still set the boost controller to the same 0.3 bar aswell, am I going to end up with 225hp? And if so, will I need to limit the boost even more to stop it exceeding the thresholds set by the TTE Blackbox?
2. How does turbo sizing work? Are the numbers you see on turbos (T30/T35 etc.) a standardised size or are they a particular manufacturers sizing?
3. Realistically, I'm not at any point planning to go beyond a HP rating that will exceed the stock engine, I'm initally aiming for the same 200hp you get with a supercharger, and maybe increase to 250hp in the future, but that's it. So with that in mind, I want the smallest turbo I can get away with that can make those sort of figures, I don't care about the whole 'my turbo's bigger that yours thing' I just want one that can make about 200-250hp and will spool super fast.
Any advice appreciated :thumbup1:
It'll be trial and error the bhp figure but the best constant to set would be the boost. You need the flow really to compare it to the charger.
As a massive turbo at 0.3 bar would flow so much more than the eaton at 0.3 bar. It's that's you will have to match to ensure its similar to the charger kit and black box.
As for how turbos work look on the Garrett site at their turbo 101 stuff very useful.
![[Image: LexuS-Copy.jpg]](http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/Sparkystav/LexuS-Copy.jpg)
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
Sparkystav
15-02-2019, 09:53 AM #2Really there's not a simple answer to any of them questions.
It'll be trial and error the bhp figure but the best constant to set would be the boost. You need the flow really to compare it to the charger.
As a massive turbo at 0.3 bar would flow so much more than the eaton at 0.3 bar. It's that's you will have to match to ensure its similar to the charger kit and black box.
As for how turbos work look on the Garrett site at their turbo 101 stuff very useful.
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
Keep it at a lower figure to start with, dyno it, turn it up a bit, dyno it...etc. ?
And I get what you mean about the flow rates being important too. High pressure water can cut through steel, but it would take months to fill a swimming pool with it. lol
sprinter2012
15-02-2019, 11:57 AM #3So what would be the trial and error method for finding out out how much boost to use?
Keep it at a lower figure to start with, dyno it, turn it up a bit, dyno it...etc. ?
And I get what you mean about the flow rates being important too. High pressure water can cut through steel, but it would take months to fill a swimming pool with it. lol
Ike found the secret to high BHP out of the IS200 was a bigger turbo flowing a lot of air rather then a small turbo flowing less air at the same pressure.
Trade off is the bigger turbo takes a little longer to spool (build up pressure) then the smaller one.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
15-02-2019, 12:06 PM #4Flow rate is the volume of air moved by the turbo at a certain pressure.
Ike found the secret to high BHP out of the IS200 was a bigger turbo flowing a lot of air rather then a small turbo flowing less air at the same pressure.
Trade off is the bigger turbo takes a little longer to spool (build up pressure) then the smaller one.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
2tongues Flow rate is the volume of air moved by the turbo at a certain pressure.
Ike found the secret to high BHP out of the IS200 was a bigger turbo flowing a lot of air rather then a small turbo flowing less air at the same pressure.
Trade off is the bigger turbo takes a little longer to spool (build up pressure) then the smaller one.
But could I just use a smaller turbo at higher pressure to achieve the same thing with less lag?
sprinter2012
15-02-2019, 12:11 PM #52tongues Flow rate is the volume of air moved by the turbo at a certain pressure.
Ike found the secret to high BHP out of the IS200 was a bigger turbo flowing a lot of air rather then a small turbo flowing less air at the same pressure.
Trade off is the bigger turbo takes a little longer to spool (build up pressure) then the smaller one.
But could I just use a smaller turbo at higher pressure to achieve the same thing with less lag?
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
Sparkystav
15-02-2019, 12:16 PM #6If you look at various turbos you can get the flow readings from the graphs.
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
15-02-2019, 12:23 PM #7Only if the smaller turbo is capable of providing the volume of air required by your engine at the higher pressure.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
the 28 can see upto 350 max and very low lag.
you say that you want to run no more than 0.3 bar??
if this is correct then you may have a small problem in that you will have to alter the actuator in that even a stock ct turbo actuator cannot boost below 0.6bar you cant run lower pressure than the actuator spring, so you would need it to have a bleed of 0.3bar for you to be able to run that low pressure.
now for external wastegates the general consensus is that the max boost is twice the spring rate so for a 0.9 wastegate spring the max controllable boost with no tailing would be 1.8bar, not always true but seems to be near that.
however i am not sure if this is the case on internal gated turbos as obviously the wastgate is controlled by an arm opening the gate hence you can get uprated actuators with adjustable rods to increase the preload.
for the power you want i would get a garrett gt 2860rs, probably one of the lowest lag garretts, for you power goals the 30 series are far too big, the 3071 is good for 500bhp on a good engine and the 3076 over 500bhp.
the 28 can see upto 350 max and very low lag.
you say that you want to run no more than 0.3 bar??
if this is correct then you may have a small problem in that you will have to alter the actuator in that even a stock ct turbo actuator cannot boost below 0.6bar you cant run lower pressure than the actuator spring, so you would need it to have a bleed of 0.3bar for you to be able to run that low pressure.
now for external wastegates the general consensus is that the max boost is twice the spring rate so for a 0.9 wastegate spring the max controllable boost with no tailing would be 1.8bar, not always true but seems to be near that.
however i am not sure if this is the case on internal gated turbos as obviously the wastgate is controlled by an arm opening the gate hence you can get uprated actuators with adjustable rods to increase the preload.
When I said 0.3 bar that was before I realised I would need to work out flow rates and all sorts of other things too. So chances are it won't be 0.3, I'm yet to work out what it will need to be.
I've got the date sheets for the GT2860RS and the Eaton M62, but I have no idea how to compare the two...
![[Image: ct_128484.gif]](http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128484.gif)
![[Image: 739548-1comp.jpg]](http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/sites/default/files/default_images/turbogroup/performance_maps/739548-1comp.jpg)
sprinter2012
15-02-2019, 01:23 PM #10I used the Garrett Turbo Advisor earlier, and it suggested either the 2860RS that you said, or a 2859R.
When I said 0.3 bar that was before I realised I would need to work out flow rates and all sorts of other things too. So chances are it won't be 0.3, I'm yet to work out what it will need to be.
I've got the date sheets for the GT2860RS and the Eaton M62, but I have no idea how to compare the two...
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