Nissan Bake upgrade
Nissan Bake upgrade
There are 4 basic ways to upgrade your brakes.
1 Better Pads
2 Better Calipers
3 Better discs
4 Hoses
1 Better pads. This is the easiest and cheapest upgrade. Better pads will have a higher friction quality and importantly they will continue to work at higher temperatures and resist fade. Let's face it when you drive hard, you often also drive hard for longer and you need something to resist heat. Pads on fire don't work well.
2 Better calipers. Larger calipers with more pistons increase the contact area and pressure on the back of the pads, especially if you go from a single piston sliding caliper to a monobloc caliper with multiple pistons in it. They also often have the advantage that they are often made from lighter alloy and thus save a little in unsprung weight helping handling.
3 Better discs. Bigger, thicker discs will have more surface area and therefore have more material available to dissipate heat. You need some heat in your brakes but too much is bad, see the comment above about pads on fire. Bigger diameter discs also move the caliper outwards and therefore increase the leverage on the disc and hub, this is good. The most expensive disc set up have seperate bells in the centre meaning that they can move in relation to the hub.
4 Hoses. Standard flexible brake hoses are able to expand as well as flex. This expansion is only small but it allows some loss of pressure getting to the caliper as well as loss of feel and extended travel at the brake pedal. Braided hoses get rid of these undesirable qualities.
Further, good quality fluid is vital. Most brake fluid is hydroscopic, it attracts water. Water from the atmosphere slowly gets into and contaminates the fluid. When you start braking hard the fluid gets hot, the water boils and turns to bubbles. As you can imagine compressing bubbles in your brake fluid when you press the pedal is pretty useless and so when you're pressing on on your long windy country road or trackday, you will get the brakes hot and suddenly the pedal will go to the floor and you will lose your brakes. If you don't know when the fluid was last changed, get it tested or change it now.
So, what do you buy?
Cost is always an issue. Regular metal Brake componets, I'm not talking carbon/ceramic stuff, contain no exotic materials and in all honesty aren't difficult to make will modern CNC machines. Yet they are ****** expensive so we have to make compromises.
Anybody in the know that sees a car with enormous willy waving shiny calipers and discs will straight away think that car must be fast. I would also think, crikey how much did that lot cost ? Big brake kits can run into thousands of pounds, but you honestly don't really need them unless you're going racing. What you do need is an upgrade to take into account the weight of your vehicle, the tuning and power upgrades you've made, and the spirited driving you will be doing.
Fortunately, we have available to us a whole raft of Skyline brake options.
Put R33 gtst discs and calipers on and you will have and instant improvement. They are bigger diameter and four piston monobloc calipers. Put some good quality pads in, Ferodo DS2500 or EBC yellowstuff/bluestuff as well as some braided hoses with new fluid and for not too much money you will have very capable brakes for everyday use and the odd trackday.
Another well known Skyline/Stagea brake upgrade is a master cylinder stopper to prevent the flexing of the brake pedal assembly on the bulkhead.
Remember also, if you put bigger brakes on, you might need bigger wheels to accomodate them.
I've researched the sizes of brakes available and put a list here, as you can see, the popular upgrade of using gtr brembos isn't a massive improvement over gtst brakes. The piston area is only slightly more and the main advantage is probably gained in the larger diameter of the gtr discs.
My own Stag has a 330mm front disc conversion with R32 Non V spec Calipers ( same as R33gtst ) and Ferodo DS2500 pads. I'm shortly going to change to EBC bluestuff front pads.
I won't get into bedding in brakes and some of the myths surrounding warped discs etc here.
Front discs
Model Diameter Thickness Center hole height
S15 SR20DET 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
R32 M-Spec 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
300zx Turbo 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
R33 GTST 296mm 30mm 68mm 53.75mm
R34 GTT 310mm 30mm 68mm 53.75
R32 GTR - non V-Spec 296mm 32mm 68mm 54mm
R33-R34 GTR - Brembo 324mm 30mm 68mm 53.75mm
Rear discs
Model Diameter Thickness Center hole height
S15 SR20DE/DET 258mm 9mm 68mm 47mm
Skyline R32-R34 297mm 18mm 68mm 63mm
Front calipers
Model Weight Material Thread Pad Piston area
S15 SR20DET 4.8kg Cast Iron 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32 M-Spec 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
300zx Turbo* 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R33 GTST 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R34 GTT 3.3kg Alloy 14mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32 GTR 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32/33 Brembo ? Alloy 12mm DB1520 44+38mm x 2
R34 Brembo ? Alloy 14mm DB1520 44+38mm x 2
Master cylinder
Model Type Master Cylibnder Diameter
S15 Spec R BM50 25.4mm
300zx turbo BM50/57 25.4 and 26.9mm used
R32 GT-T M-spec BM50 25.4mm
R33 GTST BM44 23.8mm
R32 GTR non Brembo BM50 25.4mm
R34 GTT ? ?
R32/33/34 Brembo* BM57 26.9mm
S2 Stag BM50 master cyl
R32 GTST
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 25.4 area 506.71mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4 = 5127.58mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 280×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2 = 2289.78mm^2 ratio FR = 2.239
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
total 7417.36 brake to master ratio 14.63
R33 GTST
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 23.8 444.88mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4 = 5127.58mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 296×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2 = 2289.78mm^2 ratio FR = 2.239
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
Total area 7417.36mm^2 brake to master ratio 16.67
R32 GTR (Non V-Spec,)
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 25.4
Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 296×32
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
R32 GTR V-Spec / R33 / 34 GTR with Brembos
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 26.9 568.32mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - (44+3Cool×2 ... leading pistons smaller then trailing 5309.29mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 324×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40×2 2513.27mm^2 ratio FR = 2.1125
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 300×22
total 7822.56 brake to master ratio 13.76
This is the ratio of master piston movement to overall brake pad movement
R32/GTR calliper ratio 15.43
R33/GTR calliper ratio 17.58
My knowledge isn't exhaustive and there will be people here who can add to it I'm sure.
There are 4 basic ways to upgrade your brakes.
1 Better Pads
2 Better Calipers
3 Better discs
4 Hoses
1 Better pads. This is the easiest and cheapest upgrade. Better pads will have a higher friction quality and importantly they will continue to work at higher temperatures and resist fade. Let's face it when you drive hard, you often also drive hard for longer and you need something to resist heat. Pads on fire don't work well.
2 Better calipers. Larger calipers with more pistons increase the contact area and pressure on the back of the pads, especially if you go from a single piston sliding caliper to a monobloc caliper with multiple pistons in it. They also often have the advantage that they are often made from lighter alloy and thus save a little in unsprung weight helping handling.
3 Better discs. Bigger, thicker discs will have more surface area and therefore have more material available to dissipate heat. You need some heat in your brakes but too much is bad, see the comment above about pads on fire. Bigger diameter discs also move the caliper outwards and therefore increase the leverage on the disc and hub, this is good. The most expensive disc set up have seperate bells in the centre meaning that they can move in relation to the hub.
4 Hoses. Standard flexible brake hoses are able to expand as well as flex. This expansion is only small but it allows some loss of pressure getting to the caliper as well as loss of feel and extended travel at the brake pedal. Braided hoses get rid of these undesirable qualities.
Further, good quality fluid is vital. Most brake fluid is hydroscopic, it attracts water. Water from the atmosphere slowly gets into and contaminates the fluid. When you start braking hard the fluid gets hot, the water boils and turns to bubbles. As you can imagine compressing bubbles in your brake fluid when you press the pedal is pretty useless and so when you're pressing on on your long windy country road or trackday, you will get the brakes hot and suddenly the pedal will go to the floor and you will lose your brakes. If you don't know when the fluid was last changed, get it tested or change it now.
So, what do you buy?
Cost is always an issue. Regular metal Brake componets, I'm not talking carbon/ceramic stuff, contain no exotic materials and in all honesty aren't difficult to make will modern CNC machines. Yet they are ****** expensive so we have to make compromises.
Anybody in the know that sees a car with enormous willy waving shiny calipers and discs will straight away think that car must be fast. I would also think, crikey how much did that lot cost ? Big brake kits can run into thousands of pounds, but you honestly don't really need them unless you're going racing. What you do need is an upgrade to take into account the weight of your vehicle, the tuning and power upgrades you've made, and the spirited driving you will be doing.
Fortunately, we have available to us a whole raft of Skyline brake options.
Put R33 gtst discs and calipers on and you will have and instant improvement. They are bigger diameter and four piston monobloc calipers. Put some good quality pads in, Ferodo DS2500 or EBC yellowstuff/bluestuff as well as some braided hoses with new fluid and for not too much money you will have very capable brakes for everyday use and the odd trackday.
Another well known Skyline/Stagea brake upgrade is a master cylinder stopper to prevent the flexing of the brake pedal assembly on the bulkhead.
Remember also, if you put bigger brakes on, you might need bigger wheels to accomodate them.
I've researched the sizes of brakes available and put a list here, as you can see, the popular upgrade of using gtr brembos isn't a massive improvement over gtst brakes. The piston area is only slightly more and the main advantage is probably gained in the larger diameter of the gtr discs.
My own Stag has a 330mm front disc conversion with R32 Non V spec Calipers ( same as R33gtst ) and Ferodo DS2500 pads. I'm shortly going to change to EBC bluestuff front pads.
I won't get into bedding in brakes and some of the myths surrounding warped discs etc here.
Front discs
Model Diameter Thickness Center hole height
S15 SR20DET 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
R32 M-Spec 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
300zx Turbo 280mm 30mm 68mm 54mm
R33 GTST 296mm 30mm 68mm 53.75mm
R34 GTT 310mm 30mm 68mm 53.75
R32 GTR - non V-Spec 296mm 32mm 68mm 54mm
R33-R34 GTR - Brembo 324mm 30mm 68mm 53.75mm
Rear discs
Model Diameter Thickness Center hole height
S15 SR20DE/DET 258mm 9mm 68mm 47mm
Skyline R32-R34 297mm 18mm 68mm 63mm
Front calipers
Model Weight Material Thread Pad Piston area
S15 SR20DET 4.8kg Cast Iron 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32 M-Spec 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
300zx Turbo* 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R33 GTST 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R34 GTT 3.3kg Alloy 14mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32 GTR 3.3kg Alloy 12mm DB1170 40.4mm x 4
R32/33 Brembo ? Alloy 12mm DB1520 44+38mm x 2
R34 Brembo ? Alloy 14mm DB1520 44+38mm x 2
Master cylinder
Model Type Master Cylibnder Diameter
S15 Spec R BM50 25.4mm
300zx turbo BM50/57 25.4 and 26.9mm used
R32 GT-T M-spec BM50 25.4mm
R33 GTST BM44 23.8mm
R32 GTR non Brembo BM50 25.4mm
R34 GTT ? ?
R32/33/34 Brembo* BM57 26.9mm
S2 Stag BM50 master cyl
R32 GTST
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 25.4 area 506.71mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4 = 5127.58mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 280×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2 = 2289.78mm^2 ratio FR = 2.239
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
total 7417.36 brake to master ratio 14.63
R33 GTST
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 23.8 444.88mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4 = 5127.58mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 296×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2 = 2289.78mm^2 ratio FR = 2.239
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
Total area 7417.36mm^2 brake to master ratio 16.67
R32 GTR (Non V-Spec,)
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 25.4
Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40.4 ×4
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 296×32
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 38.18×2
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 297×18
R32 GTR V-Spec / R33 / 34 GTR with Brembos
Master Cylinder diam (mm) - 26.9 568.32mm^2Front Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - (44+3Cool×2 ... leading pistons smaller then trailing 5309.29mm^2
Front rotors (diam x thk) - 324×30
Rear Caliper Piston(diam x qty) - 40×2 2513.27mm^2 ratio FR = 2.1125
Rear Rotors (diam x thk) - 300×22
total 7822.56 brake to master ratio 13.76
This is the ratio of master piston movement to overall brake pad movement
R32/GTR calliper ratio 15.43
R33/GTR calliper ratio 17.58
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