My little project - IS200 Turbo
My little project - IS200 Turbo
So a proper stand alone ECU would be needed IMHO to cure these little annoying things, but then is the cost worth it?????????? Only Stevie can answer that question.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
FirebirdPhil
02-10-2017, 01:13 AM #1,191The OEM ECU can be left in to control the instrument cluster, a/c and everything else, just like mine was and everything worked as it should apart from the MPG gauge - but them 0mpg was pretty accurate anyway:lol:
So a proper stand alone ECU would be needed IMHO to cure these little annoying things, but then is the cost worth it?????????? Only Stevie can answer that question.
"Life's goal is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body. But, rather to skid in sideways........
totally worn out and broken, shouting 'Holy ****, WHAT A RIDE!'"
Other than that, as above, its not uncommon to leave a stock ECU in place to deal with more integrated parts of the system. This can be quite common with some Auto transmission vehicles.
beyondhelp
04-10-2017, 09:40 AM #1,192Hi Steve, Found your thread! Interesting to see that it decided to go back to rich again. I'm wondering again if we should try to emulate the lambda values from within the e-manage and see if that helps at all. Trouble is with every major change in the experiment you start near-ish the beginning again.
Other than that, as above, its not uncommon to leave a stock ECU in place to deal with more integrated parts of the system. This can be quite common with some Auto transmission vehicles.
I just got back a few hours at Fusion. As previously planned, Ed changed my existing plug-in connectors for the e-Manage to proper soldered connections. Though he did comment that the installers of the unit (Noble) seemed to have used the proper tool on the existing connectors, and they had been done well, so he wasn't expecting to see the soldering making any difference. I feel happier with them properly soldered up though.
At the same time, he also connected up the water temperature and air intake temperature wires from the e-Manage. This isn't essential, and we weren't planning to use those in the map, but it provided more logging data.
I forgot to take my camera with my, so I've just got some dodgy cameraphone pics. Here's what the ECU box looks like now, it might look like a big mess, but it's actually tidier now without the bulky connectors taking up lots of room :
![[Image: IMAG0042.jpg]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/SteveHammatt/IMAG0042.jpg)
The other main aim was to sort out the fact that my car was running way too rich again, after the stock ECU had seemed to re-learn its previous settings. Now the e-Manage Ultimate can have two maps which can be switched between via DIP switches on the front of the unit, so the idea was to have a "normal" map, and also a "rich" map which would be used when the stock ECU is next reset for whatever reason (at which point it seems to run very learn whilst the ECU re-learns).
However, the DIP switches aren't exactly very easy to access. My e-Manage is in the passenger footwell, so I can get to it, but there are four DIP switches (which can be seen in the diagram below) and it would be fiddly to try and select the right ones without pulling the e-Manage out.
So Ed came up with a solution, which was to mod the e-Manage ! He connected some wires into the PCB, to connect into where the DIP switches are. This would let us mount an external switch, which I could tuck into the glovebox, and use to easily switch between two maps as necessary.
Now I've heard previous tales that the e-Manage can switch maps on the fly, and has to be turned off. But we disproved that, and it coped fine (and the engine too) with switching between the two maps with the engine running. It was obvious to see on my AFR gauge (which has been absolutely invaluable) what was happening.
Here's the mod to the e-Manage (the wires can be seen at top-left on the first pic) :
![[Image: IMAG0038.jpg]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/SteveHammatt/IMAG0038.jpg)
![[Image: IMAG0039.jpg]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/SteveHammatt/IMAG0039.jpg)
Ed didn't have a suitable switch to hand, so right now the wires to switch the maps are just twisted together, but this will be rectified with a proper switch in a few days' time.
We took the car out on the road to test things out, and as expected, with the regular map back in place (minus Ed's tweaks to put in more fuel after I reset the ECU), it seemed to be running nicely again.
For now, I'll stick with this "normal" map, and we'll get the switch connected up soon. At some point I will try resetting the ECU again, and checking that the "rich" map does its job. After all, it's inevitable the ECU will have to get reset at some point, e.g. if I change the battery.
![[Image: Sig-enginebay.jpg]](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/SteveHammatt/Sig-enginebay.jpg)
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
steviewevie
06-10-2017, 07:50 AM #1,193Welcome to the forum Ed ! :biggrin:
I just got back a few hours at Fusion. As previously planned, Ed changed my existing plug-in connectors for the e-Manage to proper soldered connections. Though he did comment that the installers of the unit (Noble) seemed to have used the proper tool on the existing connectors, and they had been done well, so he wasn't expecting to see the soldering making any difference. I feel happier with them properly soldered up though.
At the same time, he also connected up the water temperature and air intake temperature wires from the e-Manage. This isn't essential, and we weren't planning to use those in the map, but it provided more logging data.
I forgot to take my camera with my, so I've just got some dodgy cameraphone pics. Here's what the ECU box looks like now, it might look like a big mess, but it's actually tidier now without the bulky connectors taking up lots of room :
The other main aim was to sort out the fact that my car was running way too rich again, after the stock ECU had seemed to re-learn its previous settings. Now the e-Manage Ultimate can have two maps which can be switched between via DIP switches on the front of the unit, so the idea was to have a "normal" map, and also a "rich" map which would be used when the stock ECU is next reset for whatever reason (at which point it seems to run very learn whilst the ECU re-learns).
However, the DIP switches aren't exactly very easy to access. My e-Manage is in the passenger footwell, so I can get to it, but there are four DIP switches (which can be seen in the diagram below) and it would be fiddly to try and select the right ones without pulling the e-Manage out.
So Ed came up with a solution, which was to mod the e-Manage ! He connected some wires into the PCB, to connect into where the DIP switches are. This would let us mount an external switch, which I could tuck into the glovebox, and use to easily switch between two maps as necessary.
Now I've heard previous tales that the e-Manage can switch maps on the fly, and has to be turned off. But we disproved that, and it coped fine (and the engine too) with switching between the two maps with the engine running. It was obvious to see on my AFR gauge (which has been absolutely invaluable) what was happening.
Here's the mod to the e-Manage (the wires can be seen at top-left on the first pic) :
Ed didn't have a suitable switch to hand, so right now the wires to switch the maps are just twisted together, but this will be rectified with a proper switch in a few days' time.
We took the car out on the road to test things out, and as expected, with the regular map back in place (minus Ed's tweaks to put in more fuel after I reset the ECU), it seemed to be running nicely again.
For now, I'll stick with this "normal" map, and we'll get the switch connected up soon. At some point I will try resetting the ECU again, and checking that the "rich" map does its job. After all, it's inevitable the ECU will have to get reset at some point, e.g. if I change the battery.
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
![[Image: LexuS-Copy.jpg]](http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/Sparkystav/LexuS-Copy.jpg)
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
Sparkystav
06-10-2017, 08:07 AM #1,194Seems like some good work going on at Fusion mate,
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
http://photofile.ru/users/eksin/11512507...nImageLink
How do I know these wires)))
http://photofile.ru/users/eksin/11512507...nImageLink
Sparkystav Seems like some good work going on at Fusion mate,
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
Yep, thanks, Ed made sure the jumpers were right. He checked out the logging data when it was all connected and running, and the air temp and water temp were in the right sort of range for each.
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
steviewevie
06-10-2017, 08:40 AM #1,196Sparkystav Seems like some good work going on at Fusion mate,
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
Yep, thanks, Ed made sure the jumpers were right. He checked out the logging data when it was all connected and running, and the air temp and water temp were in the right sort of range for each.
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
Sparkystav Seems like some good work going on at Fusion mate,
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
Actually I wanted to mention this as a lot of people get it wrong. In order to read the sensors from the stock ecu you must have them configured for knock sensor input (high impedance input basically) NOT water/air temp like the e-manage manual implies. Only use the water/air temp settings on the jumpers if you have a standalone temp/air sensor, and are not hooking into the existing car ones.
The reason for this is that the ECU provides its own pull-up resistor for the sensors, if you switch the e-manage to water/air temp as well then you have the e-manage also using an internal pull-up. This then means you have the wrong loading across the sensors on the car and both the main ECU and the e-manage will report incorrect temperatures. (they will under-read) which can be bad if the fans rely on the ECU water temp etc.
Ed
beyondhelp
06-10-2017, 10:56 AM #1,197Sparkystav Seems like some good work going on at Fusion mate,
did you check all the jumpers in the emanage are set up for Water temp as you have to have them in a certain serup or they try and measure knock.
Actually I wanted to mention this as a lot of people get it wrong. In order to read the sensors from the stock ecu you must have them configured for knock sensor input (high impedance input basically) NOT water/air temp like the e-manage manual implies. Only use the water/air temp settings on the jumpers if you have a standalone temp/air sensor, and are not hooking into the existing car ones.
The reason for this is that the ECU provides its own pull-up resistor for the sensors, if you switch the e-manage to water/air temp as well then you have the e-manage also using an internal pull-up. This then means you have the wrong loading across the sensors on the car and both the main ECU and the e-manage will report incorrect temperatures. (they will under-read) which can be bad if the fans rely on the ECU water temp etc.
Ed
beyondhelp
Actually I wanted to mention this as a lot of people get it wrong. In order to read the sensors from the stock ecu you must have them configured for knock sensor input (high impedance input basically) NOT water/air temp like the e-manage manual implies. Only use the water/air temp settings on the jumpers if you have a standalone temp/air sensor, and are not hooking into the existing car ones.
The reason for this is that the ECU provides its own pull-up resistor for the sensors, if you switch the e-manage to water/air temp as well then you have the e-manage also using an internal pull-up. This then means you have the wrong loading across the sensors on the car and both the main ECU and the e-manage will report incorrect temperatures. (they will under-read) which can be bad if the fans rely on the ECU water temp etc.
Ed
Good info mate!
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
Sparkystav
06-10-2017, 12:06 PM #1,198beyondhelp
Actually I wanted to mention this as a lot of people get it wrong. In order to read the sensors from the stock ecu you must have them configured for knock sensor input (high impedance input basically) NOT water/air temp like the e-manage manual implies. Only use the water/air temp settings on the jumpers if you have a standalone temp/air sensor, and are not hooking into the existing car ones.
The reason for this is that the ECU provides its own pull-up resistor for the sensors, if you switch the e-manage to water/air temp as well then you have the e-manage also using an internal pull-up. This then means you have the wrong loading across the sensors on the car and both the main ECU and the e-manage will report incorrect temperatures. (they will under-read) which can be bad if the fans rely on the ECU water temp etc.
Ed
Good info mate!
Read my thread here: The Evolution of my Turbo Lexus from NA-Supercharged-Twin Turbo-Massive Single
Please leave your comments.
The e-Manage Ultimate is a very powerful piggyback ECU, and I don't think that it's at all fault here. It seems to be working very well with my conversion, but the stock ECU does still interfere and there's only so much the Ultimate can do. I highly doubt that any other piggyback would do a better job.
I'm not unhappy with the way things have turned out at all, just putting my thoughts out there for the benefit of anyone else who is thinking of going down this road.
With a standalone ECU you could lose the electronic throttle, to stop that interfering, and also stop the stock ECU from trying to alter the fuelling via lamda (or simulator) feedback. Whilst still keeping the stock ECU to manage other car functions.
I'll be sticking with the e-Manage Ultimate because the issues that it can't solve are pretty small, and I really can't justify the large extra expense of switching to standalone to fix some relatively minor issues. It's probably only because I can be a bit of a perfectionist that I'm even noticing these small issues, and particularly because my car is my daily driver. If it was just a weekend toy then I'm sure I wouldn't even notice.
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
steviewevie
06-10-2017, 11:55 PM #1,199If I was starting this project from scratch, then with the benefit of hindsight I would go with a standalone ECU, not a piggyback ECU. I think that a piggyback ECU is too compromised to be fully up to the job.
The e-Manage Ultimate is a very powerful piggyback ECU, and I don't think that it's at all fault here. It seems to be working very well with my conversion, but the stock ECU does still interfere and there's only so much the Ultimate can do. I highly doubt that any other piggyback would do a better job.
I'm not unhappy with the way things have turned out at all, just putting my thoughts out there for the benefit of anyone else who is thinking of going down this road.
With a standalone ECU you could lose the electronic throttle, to stop that interfering, and also stop the stock ECU from trying to alter the fuelling via lamda (or simulator) feedback. Whilst still keeping the stock ECU to manage other car functions.
I'll be sticking with the e-Manage Ultimate because the issues that it can't solve are pretty small, and I really can't justify the large extra expense of switching to standalone to fix some relatively minor issues. It's probably only because I can be a bit of a perfectionist that I'm even noticing these small issues, and particularly because my car is my daily driver. If it was just a weekend toy then I'm sure I wouldn't even notice.
IS200 Turbo project now just about complete ! See my thread here and leave your comments.
Now running standalone Syvecs ECU and no stock ECU !
I've got an Ultimate to get fitted to my car and I'm hoping it will be a more simple install than yours Steve. Just need to find someone to fit it ,
moke:
Lexus IS200 Mods--TTE Supercharger, Tein Superstreet Coilovers & EDFC, 6000K HID Lights, HKS Silent High Power Exhaust, DBA Front Discs, Kenwood DNX9240 Head Unit, 19" Rims, TRD Kit, FIGS Bonnet Struts, Greddy Pillar Pod & Defi Gauges, TTE Red ARBS . And Been To WIM twice
Sounds like a lot of trial and error going on there , but by the sounds of things its turned out well for you Steve.
I've got an Ultimate to get fitted to my car and I'm hoping it will be a more simple install than yours Steve. Just need to find someone to fit it , moke:
Lexus IS200 Mods--TTE Supercharger, Tein Superstreet Coilovers & EDFC, 6000K HID Lights, HKS Silent High Power Exhaust, DBA Front Discs, Kenwood DNX9240 Head Unit, 19" Rims, TRD Kit, FIGS Bonnet Struts, Greddy Pillar Pod & Defi Gauges, TTE Red ARBS . And Been To WIM twice
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